|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 06:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:How is it even physically possible to be so dumb and claim moon mining/reacting is passive income? By that logic everything you do is passive coz you put the stuff up for sale and "passively wait", right? Let's ignore everything done up until then. As someone who owns a bunch of ghetto moons in low sec (read not the 64s) I can see this become extremely annoying. Annoying enough to stop bothering because low sec with the lack of bubbles is the lowest hanging fruit and people will quickly realize it. What really grinds my gears is the dumb ***** who think only goons own moons and it's all about the nullsec alliances, sticking it to the big boys etc... Because a single player cannot possible run 20+ poses right? It's a corp endeavor, terrible people unsuccessful at everything, grinding together their lone platinum moon... CCP again screws over individuals with initiative. this exactly, most of the low sec moon mining pos's arent owned by any large null sec alliance. yes the some of the most profitable ones are but the majority are the small corps who just dont have the man power to constantly be checking pos's. Not to mention the small corps dont have anyone on the batphone to call for help if someone does decide to take thier pos, they must defend it themselves. Now not only do we have to worry about traveling throu hostile territory to get to/from our pos and high but we also have to do regular patrols to prevent someone from stealing from us? pos's are broken enough as is, why the **** are you breaking them even more? <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:If you are so worried about syphons exploiting lowsec little alliances and players, simply ban them from lowsec like it happens with bubbles and bombs
Revolutionary idea
PS Well, in fact is a good damn idea except ccp hs no intention of limiting them to just null sec nor frankly the player feedback either cause afaik they did not run this by the CSM either before they just up and did this. Low sec is the bastard child of ccp and they enjoy ******* with anyone who tries to operate in it. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sojobo Otaku wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:I'd be interested to know about future application of the "API will lie to you" precedent.
Just think of the possibilities to make you have to check everything in-game. A skill to make your market orders api more accurate ... This feature would be completely useless if the API didn't lie. I do however think the size should probably be bigger in the cargohold. If the API didn't lie though then POS owners would instanly know someone is stealing from them and thus the feature would be a total waste of time. /me detects a bullshitter somewhere...oh its that sojobo guy! the one who tries telling people the API would instantly make these syphoons useless when in reality the corp assets api has a 6 hour cache timer and someone would have to check that api data and even if you automatically checked every 6 hours you still need someone to be awake and able to go to the pos to remove the syphoon. I have a life so even with the ability to know that my pos is being stolen from there is a 16 hour window (us real world people call it sleep and a job) that I literally can NOT get on eve to do a damn thing about a syphoon. At least if someone was killing my pos my stront would give me a realistic chance to tear down/gather a defense force. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Lessons learned
GÇóShooting at stationary structures is boring
GÇóWaking up every morning and having to clean up the mess made while you were asleep is boring
GùªSee: station ping-pong pre-sov, repairing station services. Having to do something tedious every day before you can actually play the game is not cool
GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it
GùªSee: everything involving starbases. From this Dev Blog. Apparently they have forgotten the lessons learned. quoting just to make a dev read this again! <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 03:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sariton Xavian wrote:The general concept that individuals can profit from disrupting large entities outside empire space is a good one.
An implementation where anyone can inexpensively spam their way to ruining the days of POS operators is a bad one.
People are up in arms about the API lying to them and arguing about that, but I think that argument of tool integrity/POS management drudgery vs gameplay imperative has missed the real issue: that the apparent asynchronous gameplay objective of siphons as announced isnGÇÖt quite right.
Everyone complains about AFK and asynch gameplay overshadowing real interaction... so rather than try to spice up the dull passive (plus boring administration) play of POSGÇÖs with another piece of fundamentally asynch gameplay, why not come at it from the angle of it encouraging interactive gameplay events instead?
Make the siphon a bit larger and more expensive, and provide a benefit to the POS operator if they respond to it quickly GÇô for example by allowing the incapacitation, scooping and melting of the siphon (and associated recovery of its contents). The point is POS operators shouldnGÇÖt purely dread the threat of being siphoned, there should be a potential positive to them logging in to respond to one quickly. The API then wouldnGÇÖt need to lie, because the GOAL is that POS owners mobilise quickly.
Placing a siphon then becomes a small scale incitement event available to individuals or small groups. A more fluid, faster turn around, accessible alternative to re-enforcing a tower. If the POS owner is lazy, doesnGÇÖt care, isnGÇÖt paying attention, then the individual/small group can profit. If the owner is on the ball, they lose nothing and maybe gain a bit GÇô and heaven forbid a skirmish might even occur. With a design along these lines larger groups might use siphon placement as a baiting, testing or buildup exercise which once again adds to the experience rather than detracting. the mere fact there is something stealing from our pos will be enough to drive the pos owners online...ccp is wanting some sort of useful theft device thou and that demands that the pos owners dont find out about the siphons so there will be something to actually steal in the siphon. basically this kind of mechanic will never hurt the major null alliances as much as it will hurt the small low sec corps, its very nature is broken. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 10:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:[Could someone come up with some projected figures as to how much a siphon on an R64 moon would pay?? Are they a viable source of income or simply a griefing tool?
a dyspro moon makes 4,602,103.00 min or 4,989,997.00 max per hour at jita prices (thats before fuel costs as the siphon doesnt care how much isk we have to spend on blocks) so 1 siphon would steal 60/100 units and with a 20% loss thats 48 units per hour into the siphon (2,209,009.44 min or 2,395,198.56 max per hour). assuming a cost of 10 mil isk it would take 4.52 at min price or 4.17 at max price hours to turn a profit. so if the siphon went undetected for 25 hours (the time needed to fill the siphon with 1200 m3 of dyspro) it would make 55,225,236 min or 59,879,964 max (before the cost of the siphon) however it would cost the pos owner 69,031,545 min or 74,849,955 max (before the cost of fuel). a min of 45 mil or max of 49 mil isk in the first day of the siphon stealing aint too bad a haul for "afk" work (and yes that siphon is afk work). if the siphon was abandoned and its mats collected by the pos owner after 25 hours then the pos owner still lost 14 mil min or 15 mil max from the siphon. it takes only 18.1 at min price or 16.7 at max price hours to cost the pos owner as much in moon goo due to the 20% loss as it cost to deploy the siphon. so you only need a 17-18 hour window for the pos to go unchecked and you have for sure cost the pos owner just as much isk as the siphon is worth if you never went back to collect the stolen moon goo. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 10:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:It's critical that the moment you set up the siphon, resources begin to be irrecoverably lost.
In fact, when t fills up, it should just jetcan the stuff and start filling up. Of course after 2 hours the jetcan goes poof. Remember the siphon could be emptied by anyone anyway. I don't like this. Unlimited unattended destruction is no better than unlimited unattended production. except "unlimited unattended production" does NOT exist in eve at all. A pos must be kept fuel'd, silo's emptied/refilled, and out of reinforced to make moon goo production. Some of the really tight moon reaction setups have to be attended to at least every 36 hours already to maintain the pos's. Most reaction pos's don't just run for a month in between maintenance, we already have to get on alot to handle our pos's however a random griefer isnt going to know how often we have to login to know whether or not its worth while to put up a siphon but we would now have to login multiple times a day to prevent massive %'s of revenue being lost. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:S8nt wrote:With CCP hinting that they are looking at doing moon mining through moon belts how is this new feature actually going to apply to the game then?
Kinda redundant? Linky please? i believe it was mentioned at fanfest, should be on one of those youtube videos. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 20:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:Saeka Tyr wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: Hangon why if pos's are so passive do I need to spend on average 10hrs pw ( over half the average persons online time) managing my pos's?
other than "picking up materials that accumulated while sleeping" and "putting in more fuel", there really isn't much else for you to do. These mythical self anchoring, assembling, linking and on-lining POS's whom do I acquire them off? those are available in rens. thou you might want to swing by amarr for the self-hauling-product-to-jita-and-fuel-back-from-jita ones and i hear tales that dodixie has a few that self-refine-alchemy. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 11:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:2 moon harvesters feed directly into a reactor then reactor to silo. A syphon is only going to take 25 units of what goes into the silo and lose 10% of that in transit. On a hexite reaction 200 ph is produced so 175 units makes it to the silo safely and the syphon gets 22.5 units?
So syphon's will only take product, raw or simple reaction, inbound to a silo?
I'm sure I saw the answer to this but can't remember what it was or find it now . try the dev blog it's in there <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
|
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 02:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:On the one hand you guys say this change will do nothing, that your colossal manpower and alts will render these siphons impotent. On the other hand you say that these same impotent siphons will raise prices, even though they are "impotent," and won't accomplish anything. Cognitive dissonance much? it's called reading, you know that thing they taught you in grade school? cause if you would have done such you would see that the siphon wont hurt the goons much because they have the numbers to keep their space clear of siphons however any smaller entity (ie 99% of low sec moon mining) doesn't have the numbers and will be hurt to the point that alot of them will simply stop moon mining...which in turn means that those able to prevent the theft (ie goons) get more isk due to less supply of moon minerals on the market. how many times must we provide the evidence before yall see the light? <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 10:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Ah yes, the mythological small-entity moon miner. Much like the fabled unicorn of olde. It's simply heartwarming to see all of the larger moon mining entities rise up to the defense of the little man.
And of course, these small-entity moon miners control the most valuable of low sec moons and would naturally be the first targets of so-called griefers, unlike all of the big entities which content themselves with the more worthless moons. You lot are truly magnanimous. *wonders when I became mythological..does this mean I get to use Zeus's thunderbolt?
go wander around lowsec for a few jumps and you will find this mythological guy isn't as rare as you imply <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
68
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 22:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Athena Maldoran wrote: The idea behind the siphon is generally theoretically good idea, but in practise this module will not function as intended. CCP knows people hate the current gameplay in aquiering moongoo. Now they implement an module that makes it possible to greif people already doing a gameplay they dont like. This will end up with only hurting the smaller entities that does moonmining, and **** off the larger entites that does moon mining. In other words, ccp is making gamebreaking gameplay emerge, instead of fixing their legazy issues and giving the players what they want. Goon alt or minion playing the philanthropic card? You guys care so much about the little guy, so sweet. everyone's a goon alt who disagrees with you right? those hundreds of small corps moon mining in low sec are all goon alts too arent they? or maybe we are all goon alts? oh the possibilities.... |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 12:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:I'm curious as to what has been done to the API in the lead up to Rubicon.. Checking my reaction pos's I find, Sylramic Fibers -4,153.85 p/h (at the same time, the input of ceramic powder for this reaction is increasing by 253.65 p/h) Yet the pos producing Ceramic Powder -183.33 p/h Both Pos's have the correct amount in silos (no syphon's here yet LOL) But all my pos's are now giving incorrect API readings.
Is this what we can expect from now on?
you sure your numbers are correct? mine are not showing any incorrect deviations for my pos's. |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 12:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull? |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 13:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Omega Flames wrote:could the change in daylight savings time have any affect on your formulas? (assuming your using time in any of your formulas) What are the actual quantities being reported in your api pull? It is information straight from the api via eve reactor. It is now showing correct numbers so whether there was a problem with the API server for the period or whether it was CCP testing the new API manipulation due to commence later this month will probably remain unknown. I'm going to have to go with either you or eve reactor screwed up and not ccp. First off ccp api doesn't do units/hour it just lists quantities, location, itemid, etc and second mine showed correct data for all my silos. |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 13:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Your post is so full of fail that it's a wonder how you are capable of managing a pos to begin with.
1. I learned how to read the asset api directly and using a spreadsheet wrote my own formulas for interpreting the data so I know exactly what is shown by the api and "units/hour" nor "in/out amounts" are in the api (in fact product names arent shown by the api either but rather type id's which correspond to a specific type of item). those numbers are from your program interpreting the api data and making logical mathematical conclusions.
2. since we've now established that "units/hour" nor "in/out amounts" are in fact not pulled directly from the api then eve reactor can and infact either your or it did screw up when you or it interpreted the data from the api. Either you or your program screwed up those logical mathematical conclusions, not ccp
3. learn...anything...about computers and program code and you'd know that adding a random element to something like the api is not only stupid but pointless. |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
69
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 08:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Verdis deMosays wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:Verdis deMosays wrote:As a member of a small null alliance I love these changes. The siphons are an interesting idea and will be something I deploy on a regular basis with my Prowler. I think this will make for a lot more productive time gate camping too, since cloaky haulers will be in and out of null on a more regular basis to check on their little autonomous thieves. Also the Goon response has been priceless. Here's my reaction to it. http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/images/Ani2/UnfathomableSadness.gif Seeing as goons message has consistently been "this is OP we will abuse it till it is nerfed and it will be the little guys that get screwed" I think you will find that goons = Cartman in that image. Assuming you trust the opinion of the goonswarm, who have consistently shown themselves as an exploitive economic coalition. Honestly, if they are raising hell about how OP and unfair this is its a good sign to me that the existence of this item really worries them. The 74 pages of goon tears are pretty much proof of that. Assuming that CCP doesn't cave to the cries of the goons who control the majority of the moons worth anything I think the siphon will be a nice piratical way to break their hold on the T2 market. And before any goons or alts thereof start debating me on that, I'll just remind people of Hulkageddon and that time of GoonFun. who needs to trust goons? I don't trust them farther than i can throw an elephant, but I do trust the brain God gave me (since I actually use it unlike most of humanity) and the almost 2 decades of studying human behavior and almost as long studying economics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how difficult the logistics of attacking any of the large well defended null sec alliance's pos with these siphons is vs attacking any of the small not nearly as well defended low sec entities with them.
Also by mentioning the hulkageddon you are literally making their point for them because the permageddon was the final catalyst to making ccp actually rebalance the exhumers so they were worth using again due to how easy they were to kill by suicide gankers. I'll give you 1 guess which side the goons were on during the permageddon. |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter The Kingdom of Heaven
74
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 05:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
NearNihil wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Krystyn wrote:Vatek wrote:Making these 20m3 in size and having no limit on how many can be placed on one tower is a horrible design decision. One pilot in a blockade runner could seed a nullsec region with hundreds of these and shut down all moon mining income until the owners of the towers show up to pos gun them all to death.
Then they can just go get more and do it again and again and again. Thats the idea actually. No more Absentee POS owners so let me get this right... POS owners now cannot participate in 99% of the game they pay monthly to play because they have to constantly be removing siphons off their POS's? sounds like a balanced game mechanic that definitely wont pressure people to unsub. Let me tell you about the lack of bubble immunity on Blockade Runners. And about the recently buffed dictors. And about how an entire region can be defended against this sort of thing with sufficient people. But who am I to tell a CFC pilot one of many solutions to a problem? ya all those bubbles in low sec on everyone's pos...oh wait there arent any oh and all the superb intel gathering in lowsec....oh wait there arent any ohhh dont forget the 30mm scan resolution on pos warp scramblers being able to lock anything smaller than a titan before it can warp off....oh wait they cant <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
|
|
|